To the Soldiers who are “Pro-Life”


For whatever reason you have enlisted in the killing machine that is our military; maybe you are uber-Patriotic, maybe you got in trouble with the law and it was Boot Camp or prison, maybe you just like shooting strangers or being a part of an organization built solely around killing “others”, but to say that you are “Pro-Life” when you willfully register yourself in a career that involves being uniformed with a weapon as part of your basic gear, that is meant to allow you to shoot civilians, bomb innocents women and children, and kill people you have never met, well, I gotta tell you, your “Pro-Life” stance falls to pieces.

Here’s a hint. If you only care about women “killing” innocent babies and your only fight is to limit access to birth control, or you are anti-education that could prevent abortions, or if you do not spend equal time fighting for comprehensive adoption reform that allows anyone who loves children to adopt, or if you are not as vehemently opposing IVF (a process that destroys unused embryos for the sake of wealthy people to challenge God’s ruling of barrenness), you are NOT Pro-Life. You are an uneducated, ignorant, control freak who has no business offering your opinion on how a woman should have to use her body.

When you start caring about the ENTIRE issue, your obsession with one element of it renders your opinion invalid. So get your heads out of your asses or mind your business. Unless you fit all of these parameters; you are anti-war, pro-adoption, anti-IVF, pro-education, and fighting for access to preventative care every day, don’t waste your time saying you are Pro-Life when you are really just pro-hypocrisy.

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About Janis Alanis

Thinker, BS detector, champion of Reason. Unafraid. Ticked off, and riled up. View all posts by Janis Alanis

21 responses to “To the Soldiers who are “Pro-Life”

  • ivfmale

    I get what you’re trying to say, but you’ve insulted me so I must respond.

    “if you are not as vehemently opposing IFV (a process that destroys unused embryos for the sake of wealthy people to challenge God’s ruling of barrenness)”

    So it couldn’t be “God’s will” to have a couple try IVF (not IFV, what is IFV?).
    All people who try IVF are wealthy. (Where is all this money I’m supposed to have after spending my savings on trying for a kid?)
    And the fact I planned on donating my extra embryos to another infertile couple means nothing!?

    I’m pro-choice, but I’m against your tone.

    • Janis Alanis

      If pregnancy is god’s will so is barrenness. IVF is a process that culls multiple embryos wherein few are used and the rest are destroyed which equals the exact same destruction of human life as an abortion. Why is it ok to use science to override barrenness but not unwanted pregnancies? When human ‘life’ ie embryos are destroyed at a much higher rate with IVF than abortions? Each abortion equals one baby not born. IVF equals multiple ‘lives’ being destroyed rather than the obvious choice of adoption of children who are already ALIVE, living, needing food and love. I find the need to create (and destroy) embryos for the sake of genetic relationships over aiding the needy children that already exist to be the apex of hypocrisy when those people are the same who would prevent others from having dominion over their bodies. Why is it ok for those who can afford it, to have a say in their reproductive rights more important than those who are forced or held into poverty because they don’t share the same financial circumstances?

      • ivfmale

        You realize you’re talking to someone who’s been through the IVF process and knows just how wrong your statement is.
        IVF is NOT a process where are few embryos are created and the rest destroyed. It’s a process where embryos are created and many don’t survive. BIG DIFFERENCE. Of those that survive they are frozen with the option of being donated to another couple struggling to start a family. Some couple do destroy them and that’s their decision to do so.

        That is the only time you can say IVF and abortion is even remotely similar. Embryos dying in a lab is like miscarriage, not abortion.

        It’s easy to think others should adopt when you’ve never actually done the research to see how difficult adoption really is. You spend thousands of dollars getting certified to even qualify, (sure wish they would do this before a couple can have sex) then you suffer 8 months in which time a family member of the person who gave up the baby could claim it, snatching away your dreams of a family once again.

        There are many older children who could use a loving home, with the extra complication of dealing with the psychology of a child knowing they were left behind. It takes a special person who is willing to accept another’s child as their own.

        I’m reminded of a story I heard a minister tell once. A man was stranded on a sand bar in the middle of the river. He prayed to the Lord that he save him. A man on a raft stops and offers a way of the sand bar to which the guys says, “I have faith in the Lord that he will save me.” The man on the raft departs. Shortly a man in a boat shows up offering a way off. The stranded man says, “I have faith in the Lord that he will save me.” The boat leaves. The sand bar sinks and the man drowns. He arrives in heaven and asks the Lord why he wasn’t saved. to which the Lord said, “I sent a raft and a boat but you turned them away.”

        Maybe IVF is our boat.

      • Janis Alanis

        With all the needy kids in the world, IVF is creating more mouths in an overpopulated world with limited resources instead of adopting those who need. Oh, adoption is hard, is it? Those kids have psyche issues that you don’t want to deal with? Let me ask you, what guarantee do you have that your child will be any different? You know something I don’t? Because perfectly normal people have children that are schizophrenic or depressed. If your IVF baby turned out to have mental diseases would you take them back to the clinic where you bred them? That makes me think you are BEYOND selfish. Every child will be work. But you’d rather create a brand new life than to help another human being in need? Without promise that that child could suffer the same fate? And even if your scientifically altered child were perfect, you are bringing them, spending oodles of cash, time and effort to bring them into a devastatingly imperfect world. Why? So your genes will live on? Selfish to the nth degree.

  • Janis Alanis

    I am pro choice and pro life. I do not believe they are the same issue. Are you planning on donating your eggs? Or selling them? It makes a difference. One might make you a saint, the other makes you a body/baby merchant. I don’t believe IVF is pro-life, it is ten times more destructive than the abortion industry and for what? If people want to have children to love and care for, they exist today. If you are pro life, then you care about all life, not just embryos. I fight for education and for children that exist. I fight for preventative care and present day care! Life starts at life and to fight for the right to tell someone they have to be pregnant but to fail to fight for that child to have healthcare, food and a home after they’ve been born is criminally hypocritical. I don’t believe anyone who is pro IVF is pro-choice if their choice doesn’t elevate the children’s lives who are in existence right now. Where is their choice? They don’t choose to be born into rapes or poverty. They don’t choose to be orphans or worse stuck with unprepared parents who may or may not have drug addictions. I don’t care if you like my tone, I don’t like your ignorance.
    That rich people would pay you for your eggs rather than visit the NUMEROUS orphanages out there does not give credence to their superiority, nor yours for taking their money.

    • ivfmale

      My ignorance? LOL. The fact I said “DONATE” which you magically turned it into “SELL” giving you the right to try and vilify me as some money hungry individual trying to sell my embryos to the highest bidder.

      Or the fact I used the word “planned” in the past tense to mean I have no embryos to donate. Our one attempt for my wife and I to have a biological child ended with nothing to freeze, nothing to donate and childless.

      And you want to call me ignorant.

      People don’t dream of caring for “a” child, they dream of caring for “their” child.

      For someone to say I must accept my “bareness” for it is God’s will, I could easily say to an orphan that they must accept their “orphaness” for it is clearly God’s will.

      • Janis Alanis

        People who only care about “their” children do not impress me. That is the most selfish reason to have a kid. And your justification of orphans as god’s will makes me think there might be a reason you are barren. But you don’t want to think about that, do you? If you were really a good person, worthy of children you’d care about all children because they make up the world you’d have your forced spawn share. You don’t care about kids at all. You only care about perpetuating your genes, which seem from my perspective–very self centered and lacking in awareness. Yeah, we need more of that in the world. No.

      • ivfmale

        The logic of my justification of orphans being God’s will is exactly the same as yours for claiming why I’m barren. It was stated not as my personal belief, but to point out how flawed your reasoning really is. How you jump to conclusions based on scarcely any and inaccurate information, and then feel the need to claim others are ignorant. (Yep I’d be a horrible father for wanting my own child. God sure knew what he was doing giving a kid to a woman addicted to crack who would even stop using during the pregnancy.)

        You have the nerve to complain about IVF creating more mouths to feed and then try to claim you care about children. You’re even clueless about the needs of adoptive children and how they differ from psychological issues they must deal with. There’s a whole section in the state questionnaire devoted to helping a child deal with feeling abandoned. You may want to adopt a child, but the state could still reject it. (And no the state didn’t reject us.)

        Show me your adopted child and then you have the right claim I’m self centered and lacking in awareness. It’s not the job of the barren to take care of all the orphans. By your logic a couple having sex to start a family is very self centered for not choosing to adopt an existing child instead.

        Many struggling with infertility do choose to adopt, some don’t. It’s a choice a couple must decide on, not you to make for them.

        If you’re that concerned about overpopulation, IVF is a poor target to focus on. In 2010 there were just over 4 million births in the United States. Only 60,000 were from IVF. That’s 1.5% of the birthrate in the US because of IVF. Which means 98.5% of the births where by people who just wanted to perpetuate their own genes through selfishly having sex.
        But I’m the bad guy. 😆

        Considering the source I’ll take it as a compliment.

      • Janis Alanis

        I am adopted, asshole. My point ALL along, not surprised you missed it, was that if people want to make abortion illegal because of the sanctity of life then they should consider how detrimental it is to life, living beings to say that the children that exist are less important and their lives mean less than protecting the unborn or betraying nature just for the sake of creating your genetic progeny. And it sickens me that you and your ilk would spend 1/3 or 1/2 of your net worth to gamble nature, maybe even destroy your marriage by making fertility your obsession rather than accepting your fate and perhaps giving a child in need a home. Was it worth it? You say you failed to triumph over nature. Do you ever think of how much good you could have done with all that money and time wasted? Hell, you could have made such a difference in 1000s of children’s lives with that money. And you could have done it without getting your precious hands dirty with those psycho foster kids by donating food, coats and books to poor neighborhoods. But no, you wanted YOUR kid. To hell with kids in general. Mine, mine, mine. So, no, I don’t think you’d be a good dad, because I don’t think you are a good person. You are selfish and self centered and I imagine that is why the universe handed you your lot. Will you ever consider how your selfishness dictates your bounty? My guess is no.

        You have a lot of nerve judging a crack addict when you care as little about children. You of all people, if you can afford IVF, have the means, and I am guessing the education and resources to do more, with less issues facing you to help children in need. But much like the crack addict, all you can think about is yourself. You two are exactly the same.

        In the US, arguably the richest nation in the world, 13,000,000 children are starving. The last thing we need is to perpetuate the genes of such selfish people who would turn a blind eye to those in need to satisfy their egomaniacal drive to procreate.

      • ivfmale

        As expected, another sophomoric response. Your reliance on Straw Man and Ad Hominems are weakening your arguments. Learn what they are and how to avoid them.

        My marriage is just fine. The majority of marriages falling apart after an unsuccessful IVF would likely fall apart anyway if IVF wasn’t available. The root cause isn’t IVF, it’s infertility. Most people have no idea of their fertility issues until after marriage and trying to start a family. The stress of infertility can divide a couple, or bring them together.

        1 in 6 couples struggle with infertility. Most stay quiet to protect themselves, but you likely know someone who is or will be facing these choices. Only 20% of those couples both have issues causing infertility. That means 80% of them are cases where only the male or female partner has the problem and the other one is just fine. Remove IVF as an option, male infertility can still easily be overcome using donor sperm. Female infertility would become a dead end. Some do choose adoption rather than continuing treatments. Some choose adoption while continuing treatments. And some are just not comfortable with the idea of adoption. There isn’t a universal solution that’s right for everyone faced with infertility. It’s a totalitarian position to claim there is one.

        I knew the risks up front that IVF may not work. Spending the money was worth it. Just because I spend money on IVF doesn’t mean I don’t still donate to charity. How I spend my money is my business, not yours. If you want to look for wasteful spending that should be used for other purposes, look at the BILLIONS of dollars spent just to elect someone for President.

        The fact is many couples faced with infertility have been successful with IVF and are wonderful parents. Whether I would be a good father or not is irrelevant.

        I didn’t miss your point. My issue with the article was the misrepresentation of the IVF process, then using them to support your conclusions.

      • Janis Alanis

        That you continue to come here to argue your point tells me that you are not as secure as you would hope to believe. You call me sophomoric? The extent of your selfishness shall keep you in the dark for ages to come. The fact is, you are a selfish person who feels the need to argue with a stranger to make yourself feel better about your inability to accept your fate. This affects me zero. You are responsible for learning the lessons life teaches you and your denial is beneath me. So, go pretend you are superior to someone else who might believe you. I will not ever.

      • ivfmale

        😆 Your assertions as to my security and superiority are amusing considering my blog is largely about how infertility causes feelings of insecurity and feeling inferior.

        There is a difference between attacking a position and attacking a person. I called your response sophomoric, not you. A response formulated to attack a person in order to avoid dealing with their position is sophomoric.

        I have zero interest in whether you believe me or not. I felt you grossly misrepresented the IVF process and made a comment about it.

      • Janis Alanis

        You were never even having the same conversation as me so your judgment of my argumentation is moot. And this is not your blog. Funny how you came here and expect me to cater to your delusions while arguing for your selfishness. I recommend you find a hobby, because your obsession with things you cannot change is quite disturbing. A healthy dose of self awareness will do you good. Perhaps chanting or therapy? Best of luck to you. I hope this is the year you learn that you are not the center of the universe.

      • ivfmale

        I didn’t feel the conversation you were trying to have was even worth commenting on, as I don’t see anyone else but yourself is interested in that conversation based on the comments on your post.

        What I find disturbing is your lack of understanding regarding the basic tenants of logic. Key among them is deriving conclusions based on facts. Second is using personal attacks only discredits yourself.

        1 in 8 struggle with infertility. I don’t denounce statements made in ignorance for only myself, but for all of us struggling with infertility. If we never reached beyond our grasp, man wouldn’t have learned how to fly, smallpox would still be killing millions of people and the concepts of computing wouldn’t exist for you to even have a blog.

      • Janis Alanis

        Yeah. You are a real Albert Schweitzer. Jesus you are so full of yourself. Because of pioneers like you, I exist? That must be your God complex talking. The same one that propels you to chase unicorns made specifically of your genes. You came here. And still come here. So obviously I have something you want. Perhaps my wisdom, or perhaps you just don’t have anything better to do and you are avoiding life that you say you are so happy with.
        To lecture me on logic is a joke! Just like every other emotion you have, your logic is self centered. If it makes sense to you, then that is your logic, but if it doesn’t make sense to you, even someone else’s opinion, you feel the need to argue and hound strangers just to feed your egotistical needs. Much like the pursuit of fertility, you just don’t know when to quit.
        And to insult my blog, ha. The one that YOU keep coming to so you can boldly stand up for all infertile couples? Jesus, how do you fit your ego into a space where you can type? No one is forcing you to come here and make an ass out of yourself. Yet you continue to do so.
        But most ego maniacs just can’t help themselves. You just have to have the last word. Am I stalking your blog? You don’t even understand the issues I am discussing but it hasn’t stopped you from offering a completely misplaced stance to satisfy your drive to avoid your life and assert superiority. Save it.
        Get a grip buddy. You may think you are arguing for IVF but you are spreading the word of assholery and ignorance about EVERY other element of existence. You have centered your whole life around IVF, defined yourself and why you even created a blog about it. And you expect everyone to fall in line to your self centered opinion on it. Good luck with that.
        I recommend you get to a temple and study Nagarjuna’s Ocean of Reasoning. Only you can overcome your abject existential deficiencies.
        But do not come here again to insult me, because I will not supply you with the attention you so desperately crave and obviously need. Maybe ask your wife? Leave me out of your tantrums.

      • ivfmale

        I’m sorry if you feel insulted, that wasn’t my intention. Nor do I recall any of my comments amounting to tantrums. Yours on the other hand…

        Sorry but logic is not objective or self centered when used properly. If you had any understanding of logic you would know that and recognized how fallacious your arguments truly are. So yeah, I do feel justified in lecturing you about logic having studied the subject for several years.

        I see nothing resembling wisdom here. But I do admire how someone can be so obtuse and completely commit to it.

        If you want to delete all my comments on this post, feel free to do so and we can agree to disagree. But as long as you respond, I’m not about to let you think you’ve come up with something so profound as to render me speechless.

      • Janis Alanis

        Oh no. Arrogance is never speechless. You’ve studied logic for a number of years and this is where you stand? I too have studied 10,000 years of logic systems from the beginning of time, from every historical period, and civilized continent. And throwing money away fighting the ghost of genetic predispositions while at the same time arguing that you own logic is antilogical. What did your studies teach you? To deny reality? To call others who see the whole picture obtuse?
        You only care about yourself. You have made that abundantly clear in your inability to accept your infertility, your harping on the subject, and your lack of self control.
        You just want to argue with me because you are mad at God or the universe for not giving you everything you wanted. Trust me, no amount of your egomaniacal posturing is going to change your fate. You obviously desperately need attention. You obviously are desperate to lash out. You obviously are not getting what you need at home. I am happy to host you. As my mother would say, when they are hounding you at least they are giving someone else a rest.
        By allowing you to come here and masterbate to your own sense of self righteousness, I am saving someone else from listening to your bullshit. You are welcome any time.
        But you don’t know shit about logic, at least universally. Your version of logic only satisfies your needs and your values could never be universally accepted. The world would die out with such selfishness. I don’t need 3 degrees in Philosophy to see that.
        Maybe take your ego down a notch? Maybe try, as I earlier suggested with my posts, to consider the world at large? And not just your miniscule role in it? Not just what makes you feel good or smart?
        I can tell you are passionate about this subject and for what it is worth, I can appreciate that. But my original post was about the logic in demonizing one medical procedure over another based on faulty reasoning and moral subjugation. A point you wholly missed. I do not give two shits if people use IVF. I seriously couldn’t care less, making all this arguing your point to me hilarious because a truly logically minded person would have understood that from the get go. I was speaking of the politicization of abortion and you brought the same argument you have been carrying around with you as your cross to bear and tried to shove it into a topic to which it was inconsequential.
        Is that how you use logic? One argument fits all? I am still unimpressed. This is indicative of your mindset that you have aptly displayed in your posts. You only care about you, your life, your genes, and you brought a knife to a gun fight when you refused to step outside your self imposed, martyred prison of ‘champion of IVF.’ My post was never about IVF. How do you not understand that?
        I have merely been playing the devil’s advocate in regards to IVF, surprised someone as “logical” as you didn’t pick that up. But then again…

        You seem completely lacking in self awareness. Fix that, and I imagine your the rest of your problems will fix themselves. Good luck to you!

  • Anonymous

    There are 1.2 million abortions in the US each year and 1.16 million discarded embryos through IVF.

    Source: http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/politics/2012/if-you-are-pro-life-should-you-be-anti-ivf/

    • Janis Alanis

      Wow. That is an interesting statistic. Thanks for sharing. Pretty sure it will fall on deaf ears because people seem to be able to justify anything they want.

  • Gerard T. Perkins

    The recent Susan G. Komen v. Planned Parenthood debacle got me thinking about the whole issue of pro-choice and pro-life all over again. Like many unapologetic pro-choicers, I have a deep-seated loathing of the term “pro-life.” Because my belief opposes theirs, does that make me “anti-life” or maybe “pro-death”? Yes, I’m pro-choice, but to me, that’s really a way of expressing my pro-life views.

    • Janis Alanis

      The set up of opposition between “pro-life” and “pro-choice” is specifically orchestrated to create hostility. At their hearts, they are two completely different issues. How can I say this? Because, like you said, I am not pro death (or I’d love war, which I do not), nor am I anti-life (or I wouldn’t be fighting for the children who are born into poverty and their families who cannot afford food while we spend billions on bombs). Also, I am for the right to choose, not just regarding my reproductive rights, but also what goes into my body, how my tax dollars are spent, how I raise my family, and who I choose to love without the governments two cents and prying eyes into my bedroom. From where I sit, most “pro-life” advocates; who ironically are war mongering, pro death penalty champions, do not care at all about life, but more about control, which is specifically something I would never CHOOSE. (*given the choice) 😉 The dichotomy set up between the two ideologies is not only false, it is not even related as those who espouse prolife sentiments aver it to be. Hard to take them seriously when they are yakking out of both sides of their mouths.
      Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate your input. Have a great evening, Gerard.

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